Profound Wisdom/Modern Take and the Silver Surfer with Raymont Anderson

[00:00:01] The following podcast is part of the MindBodySpirit.fm podcast network. Explore modern spirituality, creativity, and self-development. Delve into the intersection of metaphysics and science through great conversations. Where do you find your truth? It's a big universe. Hi, everybody. This is Big Universe. I'm Jim Lefter, and I'm so grateful to have you here today.

[00:00:30] I'm a spiritual journeyman and media producer type guy. I'm really happy to have a friend joining me today. And it just so happens that he has a fantastic new book out that gives a modern approach to new thought spiritual teachings. And honestly, I think it's eye-opening and very valuable as we move forward in the spirituality of the 21st century.

[00:00:54] So, Reverend Dr. Raymont Anderson is a spiritual teacher, author, and cultural thinker whose work invites a return to integrity and the true measure of consciousness. He's been ordained eight times, resulting in him being deeply rooted in the science of mind tradition and informed by many paths, as well as from lived experiences.

[00:01:17] He is the architect of the EKG framework, a modern spiritual model centered on embodiment, integrity, and conscious choice. His latest book is Explaining That. It's EKG, Embodied Knowingness of God, A New Approach to Understanding and Applying the Mental Equivalence. Among the many things he does, he currently serves as the spiritual director of the Center for Spiritually Integrated Arts.

[00:01:42] For more information on that, go to spirituallyintegratedarts.org. Ray, it is so awesome to have you back here on Big Universe. My pleasure. Great to be with you once again. Yes, you and I started this thing quite a long time ago. I am grateful that you launched the adventure with me way back, even if you had to insist on going on to other things, because, you know, you have other things to do occasionally.

[00:02:11] And I understand that, but I have missed you. I have missed you. And I'm glad that you kept it going. Yes, it's been a wild ride. I've really enjoyed it. Excellent. Excellent. So my first question to you, of course, is, are you a Jedi yet? Yes, finally. I mean, yeah. Woo-hoo! Woo-hoo! Yeah, that was one of them paths in there in that eight ordination thing. When I found out that you could actually do that in Canada and what, Australia or whatever, I was like, wait a minute, you're telling me I can actually do this?

[00:02:41] Isn't that hilarious? Right. I think that's great. Yes. Come on, man. I think in England, there are actually hundreds of thousands of people that have labeled themselves officially as Jedi's. That's incredible. Yes, I agree with you. Very cool. So how many spiritual certifications do you have exactly? Eight. Can you name a few of them? Why so many?

[00:03:10] Because I'm nosy. So, like, I first got ordained as a Christian minister specifically because I wanted to be able to argue the Bible with my oldest brother, who is a very conservative. I mean, very conservative Christian. Technically, he would be a Christian nationalist. So I just wanted to be able to argue the Bible with him. And, you know, that was part of the path, getting to know the Bible.

[00:03:35] So I got ordained in that and then moved to Richmond and almost got ordained in the Metropolitan Community Church kind of thing because the minister there was like, you'd be a good minister. I ain't trying to do this. Come on now. Leave me alone. But somewhere in there, I ended up going the path of interfaith and got curious about that and ended up becoming ordained.

[00:03:58] In three different schools for interfaith and then New Thought and then CSL. And then last year, Bishop Durrell Watkins over at Sunshine Cathedral in Florida, we had a conversation. And he said, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they gave me an honorary doctorate two years ago. He said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I said, well, wait a minute. What would I have to do? Well, this, this and that. OK, I'm going to do it.

[00:04:26] And so I got ordained as a divine science minister as well. Well, I mean, that's amazing to me. But you, you sort of settled for a while in science of mind, religious science. You founded an online teaching center in, in that discipline. Yes. Why did you add on divine science? What's your path from here? What's the next certification you're going to have? So I don't know what the next certification is going to be, but the reason I did the divine science was I wanted to have a deeper understanding of how Dr. Holmes started.

[00:04:55] And he started as a divine science minister and then moved into creating religious science. So I was like, well, I want to understand more about what his foundation was. So that was my path to, in essence, go back to the roots, go back to the foundation of, which gave me a deeper understanding of science of mind. Wow, that's, that's interesting. All right. So why did you write this book, EKG, Embodied Knowingness of God? And why right now?

[00:05:26] So it's been brewing for a while. As far back as when I was the associate minister with Reverend Alex in CSLDC. And I was teaching the From Whence We Came class. And one of the reading materials was Emmett Fox, Mental Equivalent. And we read Emma Curtis Hopkins, Mental Science. And there are two places in both of these texts where something regarding race comes up.

[00:05:56] For Emmett Fox, it's the gentleman who is the shoeshine person, which he calls a shoe black. And for Emma Curtis Hopkins, it's when she uses the South African word for the N word here. And then she references a young colored girl who had kinky hair and they prayed for it to be straight and it was straightened. And there's nothing in the curriculum to address the microaggressions regarding this. Right. So it's been brewing like, well, wait a minute.

[00:06:25] When do we open the space to even talk about? At one time, this was normal language. Now it's not. It would be like reading a book and someone says, you know, and I'm going to use this just so everybody's very clear. The R word. Someone says retarded. Well, that's not politically correct to even use that term anymore. So would there be something in our curriculum that says, well, a parent came to us because their child was retarded and we prayed?

[00:06:54] Well, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because no, not today. So I wanted to address the language of the past. But through the lens of, OK, so we know more about psychology today than they knew then. We know more about science today than they knew then. So when do we update how we present it? Yes. Read Shakespeare the way Shakespeare is written. Yes. Make sure you tell Anne I said that.

[00:07:22] Read Shakespeare the way Shakespeare is written. Right. Then when we discuss it, we're going to use our language today to discuss and to understand it better. Mm-hmm.

[00:07:34] Why specifically now, Reverend Galen McDowell, I think it was last year, he sort of issued a challenge on social media, Facebook, saying all of us who are, you know, new thought ministers and practitioners and whatnot, when are we going to step in and start writing the materials of today for the future generations to then use? Right. Huh.

[00:08:05] It's time. So between those two things and just my frustration with we still anthropomorphize God in new thought. We still metaphysical malpractice. We still do a lot of this stuff. And it's because we're doing what many Christians do. They cherry pick the Bible. Mm-hmm.

[00:08:31] We cherry pick our philosophy and present it in ways that aren't effective. So the basic, yeah, the basic concepts of Ernest Holmes and Emmett Fox with the mental equivalent stuff, I think still holds up there, but you make the good point that language has changed. Culture has changed. We know more science than we did at that particular time. And so our awareness, you know, it makes sense that our awareness should be updated as well.

[00:09:01] I mean, 1943 was a while ago. Yes, it was. And things have changed. Very much so. Right? Like, very much so. In fact, a while ago when I was on the minister's list, sir, for CSL, you know, I put forth a question regarding, and I don't remember what sparked it, but I put forth a question regarding the civil rights movement.

[00:09:22] And, you know, you see pictures of Dr. King and all these folks, and, you know, it's Dr. King and some rabbis and some Orthodox Christians, and you see this spectrum of people of varying faiths getting together, varying shades of complexion getting together for equality, justice, etc. And I was curious, was there anybody representing unity or, well, back then it would have been religious science or the church of religious science?

[00:09:50] Were any of us there? And someone put forth the thing and said, well, if anyone would know, Reverend Dr. Jesse Jennings would know. So I reached out to him and asked. And being the scholar that he is, he went back to his collection and read every single look to every single magazine that spanned that era.

[00:10:13] And throughout all of them, he found one unity minister submitted something, an article that was sort of adjacent to commenting on the civil rights movement. But it wasn't. This is what we as new thought should be doing. There was nothing. And I'm like, wow. So we've been behind the curve in many instances.

[00:10:39] The only way we're going to create a world that works for all, being the vision of centers for spiritual living, the only way we're going to do that is we have to stop waiting for, as Dr. King said, the arc of the moral universe bends towards justice. We have to stop waiting for it to bend. We have to bend it. The only way we're going to do that is we need to start embodying the teaching. Right. Like Dr. Holmes said in Sermon by the Sea. Show me a thousand people who know what it is.

[00:11:08] Practice it and live it as a way of life. We're great with talking about it. In many ways, we're great with practicing aspects of it. But that whole living it as a way of life, we're still doing Tupperware metaphysics. We're segmenting things. I think you're totally right in this.

[00:11:29] I mean, from my opinion, in that, you know, I think that we as humans in a spiritual movement, we tend to become sometimes beholden to people that put some of these ideas forth. And sometimes I think, as it happens in just about every path, it's to an extreme. Because, you know, I think there are fundamentalists in every spiritual path.

[00:11:55] You know, I consider, of course, America is a very interesting and a good path for folks. But there are fundamentalists in that path, too. And there are in new thought who want to stick to a particular understanding. And Ernest Holmes himself said we needed to be open at the top.

[00:12:15] I really don't think his intention was to say, you know, follow exactly what I'm saying and don't divert from that as, you know, critical thinking comes along. Exactly. I mean, there's a there's a and I don't remember where exactly it's written, but there's a place where he references and says,

[00:12:36] I'm hoping that somewhere in the future, you will take all of my stuff and throw it out because you will have evolved to the next plane of this is what science of mine now is. And I know he didn't mean like literally like be gone with Shakespeare or, you know, be gone with the Wizard of Oz. Like never. The Star Wars. Never, never. Right. Right.

[00:12:59] But he means you will no longer be relying on this as the sole Bible of the movement. Yeah. And it's often I think of it as the teaching of Jesus, you know, whether you believe specifically or a concept, you know, it's the essence of what he put forward.

[00:13:21] Not, you know, to me with new thought, it always it always comes back to the concept of Christianity is different in that new thought puts forward that Jesus was the great example, not the great exception. And so I find that really interesting. All right. Let's go back to basics with what a mental equivalent is. What is a mental equivalent?

[00:13:46] So the way it's typically taught and presented a mental equivalent is you have an idea, a belief. You have an image in mind of what it is you want to experience. I want to I want a new car. What is the mental imagery? What is the mental concept? So I get into a space of I need to see it. I need to see myself driving it. I need to like a mental idea of it all.

[00:14:16] That's the gist of it. You got to have an idea in your consciousness. Otherwise, it ain't going to happen. And yeah. Yes. However, for me and what I wrote in the book is. In order for things to manifest, there have to be four pillars. It cannot just stay in your mind. Like if you and I are hungry and we sit here and say, wow, it would be great to have something to eat. And you say, I'm going to picture what I want to eat. And Bray, you picture what you want to eat.

[00:14:45] And we just sit here and daydream and picture what we want to eat. We'll starve to death. Yeah. Yeah. So at some point, especially if we're both going to go out. Well, we have to talk about where would you like? What are you in the mood for? So the mental image now becomes a spoken concept. And when you say, oh, well, we should go there. And I'm like, oh, cool. Because I've always wanted to go there. There's now an emotional. Oh, we're going to have good food, good conversation.

[00:15:14] So now that's three pillars. Fourth pillar is we go. We go. We dine. We eat. We converse. All four of these. We have to do them all in order for whatever it is we want to manifest. Greater health, greater well-being, world that works for all. Start with, yes. What's the idea? Okay, let's talk about it. Okay. What are the emotions that help bring that about?

[00:15:43] Like there's a passage in the Bible that says the reason, and this is my paraphrase. I'm not going to King James. The reason you pray and don't have what you're praying for is that you're praying amiss. And when you look at the etymology of, okay, so amiss, you look at it in the Greek is you pray with the wrong motive. You pray with the wrong motivation. Well, motivation is what is the energy?

[00:16:09] What's motivating you to want a world that works for all? What's motivating you to want to write a book? Well, that's the emotional fuel. So praying without the fuel is driving without the gas. You need all four of those. So for me, mental equivalent is the thoughts, the words, which include all forms of communication, not just spoken. It's typed text emails.

[00:16:39] It's all of it. The emotions and the feelings and the actions behaviors. That makes sense. Because I think sometimes people, especially people outside of the new thought perspective kind of think, oh, we're just talking about manifesting, you know, money or manifesting things or, or, or stuff like that. And I, it reminds me that, you know, the movie, the secret obviously was a big hit and somewhat justified.

[00:17:08] It got a lot of flack, but to me, what it put forward was this concept of, of being able to move in, move energy in that direction. Now it was flawed in that. It seemed to focus a little too much on stuff. Right. But I think in a way, that's how it got into our culture. So I, I don't, I don't know that I entirely fault it for that.

[00:17:37] I think it just requires a deeper, a deeper dive into what you're talking about. Yeah, I agree completely. I mean, if we can look at. Many forms of scientific discoveries like, or medicine. Yeah. There was a time when they used to put leeches on people for things. Okay. We wouldn't do it now, but it opened the door for great. Speak for yourself. Speak for yourself. Right. But it opened the door for greater understanding that helped medicine and science evolve.

[00:18:06] So yes, the law of attraction, it opened the door for people to get curious about, Oh, wait a minute. So you're telling me the Kabbalion has other laws and principles like the law of polarity and the laws of gender. And well, I'm curious to know more. So yes, it opened the door and some people, they just stayed right there. The door is open and they, they're staying in the doorway instead of actually entering in to explore what else there is.

[00:18:35] But yeah, it was very valuable in starting and kicking us off. Very. The four pillars that you talked about, let's run through those again. Uh-huh. The first one is thoughts. Start with there. Tell me exactly what you mean. So everything that we would consider a thought, imagination, beliefs, everything that our consciousness is, anything that's in there, ideas, all of that. That's that first pillar.

[00:19:05] Second, the ways we communicate our words. When I am talking about or writing about anything, what am I doing? In many ways, it's the same thing of, okay, so if I say, I want to experience more joy in my life. But then we go back and we read the last three emails that I sent you.

[00:19:30] And you're like, so when I asked you how things were or whatever, like there's nothing in here that would even, like, in fact, this is actually the opposite because like you're complaining about politics and I got you. But when do you, there's a difference between venting and moaning and groaning and complaining. If you want joy, vent, get it out of your system and then move to the next phase. There's nothing in your communication that's doing that.

[00:20:00] Well, then my communication is actually conveying where my mind actually is. So I need to be speaking, communicating on the same ideas that I have in mind. If it's joy, then I need to also be speaking, communicating, writing about joy. Emotions and feelings. Okay, so what brings me a sense of joy?

[00:20:27] Watching Star Wars, watching the next Star Trek something or other, you know, going to see Supergirl, whatever it is that makes me feel joy, do it. Bring myself into it. And then lastly, well, you got to do it. So if you're like, oh man, you know, Ahsoka is getting ready to start the next season and I can't wait till, and then you're like, no, Ray, it already started last week. And I'm like, really? I'm going to wait six months to watch it.

[00:20:57] Why? Do it now. Yeah. So you got a gift. Ray, where's that gift that you got last week? Oh, it's still sitting in the box. You got it last week though. You can take it out of the box, open the box. So it's got to be the activity of doing the things that are going to get you there. It's got to be all of it. I have an idea. Oh, I would love, instead of buying all of my own vegetables or buying vegetables, I would love to have a vegetable garden. I get the idea.

[00:21:27] What vegetables, first of all, where in the yard am I going to put it? What vegetables do I want to do? What else would I need? I get the vision of it. Then I start talking about it. Yeah. So this is what I got planned, Jim. And, you know, I'm thinking about doing this and that. Okay. Do my emotions show that I am motivated and eager to do this? If not, then I got to work on that. If they do, cool. Three pillars. And then I got to go get the equipment, get the seeds.

[00:21:55] I got to go in the yard and rake and shovel and fertilizer and all that stuff. And I have to maintain it. It's not a one and you're done. Microwave gardening, what you throw it in, you push 30 seconds and voila, you have a vegetable garden. No, it's work. It's the practice. It's the maintenance of it. It's the same thing for everything in our lives.

[00:22:22] So are you saying that me not wanting to do the lawn and forcing my son to do it or, you know, hiring a service to do it? I'm not, I'm not creating. Is that what you're telling me? No, but you are because your idea is the lawn needs to be mowed. Yeah. You say, I don't want to do it. So I'm gonna get Josh to do it. Your energy is I'm gonna go smoke a cigar and watch a movie.

[00:22:50] I'm glad Josh is gonna do it. And then you pay him to do it or do whatever you go chilling. So yes, you are creating. And in fact, you're co-creating with him. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So we're not just talking about stuff here. Correct. We're talking about creating our life in, in what areas are we talking about? For instance. Everything. Because for me, like the thing that moves it from stuff.

[00:23:21] Because oftentimes we put the cart before the horse, right? We talk about do, do you do spiritual practices or what spiritual practice do you do? And, you know, we, we do do a lot versus, well, how often do we talk about what we are being? Hmm. Hmm. Because if we are being the thing, then the thing shows up far more readily. Right?

[00:23:49] If I, do you do justice or do you be someone who is embodied justice, which then makes the doing of it easier? Right? Right? Like, uh, in order for, for someone to act, if they're good, I mean, Tom Cruise. Hmm. Um, no, sorry. I have no shade to him, but. Little opinions on that. A few opinions. Just saying. Very successful. Very successful.

[00:24:19] But every film, it's like, oh, that's Tom Cruise. Like, I didn't forget. Like, I forgot that that's Denzel Washington as the equalizer or whatever. Malcolm X. Right. Right. Um, but you start with, okay, so how do I embody the character?

[00:24:35] And then when you know who the character is and you are being that, then everything you do, all of your actions in your acting reveal who the character is being. So same thing in, you know, this thing called life is, so what am I being? Am I being someone who recognizes that everything I do is spiritual practice?

[00:25:03] Because in our teaching, we say God is all there is. God is everything. Then that means mowing the grass can be a spiritual practice when I recognize it as that. Doing the laundry, when I recognize it as that. Which brings me to the idea of, well, then in the many of the older Buddhist writing scriptures texts.

[00:25:29] Enlightenment is not something we need to seek or get or obtain. It's already our nature. And the reason it evades us is because we're looking for love in all of the wrong places. We're looking for it. So, well, it'll be that next class or that next workshop or that next book. Then I'll be that next whatever. Then I'll be enlightened versus. No, you have it now. Christ consciousness. You have it now.

[00:25:59] It's what you are now. How do you live from that? So, yeah, it's all of the intangible things first that then birth the tangible things. You put a formula in the book that says identify what you're talking about. Identify the desired life experience. Then identify the thoughts and words, communication. Yep. And the emotions and feelings.

[00:26:28] And then you take actions that you need to put into place to create the life experiences you want. Yep. Reverse engineering. Yep. Yeah. Um, you talk about, which is very fun because, you know, I like Marvel. You talk in the book about wanting to get a silver surfer statue. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Take me through. And again, we're not just talking about getting stuff. Right.

[00:26:58] But as an example, you know, take me through how this process worked for you to bring something into your life like this. Right. Right. So initially when I saw it pop up on, you know, the website, it was like, oh, wow, that's expensive. And then you get into the whole, ah, why are the coupons and discounting T-Mu and whatever.

[00:27:25] Mind you, a T-Mu silver surfer would be made out of used aluminum foil. Yeah. Yeah. So for me, it's like, okay, well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. How would this look in practice? Okay. One, I say I want this statue. Why do I want it? Mm-hmm. How is me having this making anything in my life better? So now it's not about the statue.

[00:27:54] It's about how my life is enlarged. That's the thing. Well, how, where's the joy? What is the joy? What is the happiness? What is the fulfillment? What is that? Once I can identify that and connect it to this, then it's like, oh, so in the grand scope of all things Marvel.

[00:28:17] And, you know, as we can see, there's a lot of stuff that reminds me of my superheroes and, you know, my Ahsoka Tano lightsabers. And like there's because it brings me into a space of joy. All of that stuff represents imagination and creativity and joy.

[00:28:37] So every time I see Grogu, it reminds me joy, happiness, the innocence of my childhood when everything was possible. So that silver surfer is a representation of all of that. Mm-hmm. So now that I'm anchored with that, then it's okay. What does it look like for me to already have this? What does it look like?

[00:29:07] Like, what do I feel? What am I thinking? What am I saying? Like, what, what is all of that? What do I have to do in order for this to manifest? So is it saving money? Is it like I identify what would all of the possible steps be? Because maybe it's not me buying it at all. Right. I've identified I want it. Maybe it's me saying, well, Jim invited me to go with him and Josh to the Comic-Con in Baltimore.

[00:29:37] I'm going to go. So I go. And I'm the 100th and first person to get in. And they're like, ding, ding, ding. You got the sweepstakes. You get this free silver surfer statue. And I'm like, you gotta be. What? Right. So the moment you really open the doors of possibilities, this could come to me in all kinds of ways. A gift, a sweepstakes, any kind of possibility.

[00:30:04] And am I open to it? The moment you open yourself, the moment I opened myself to it, then I could actively feel it's coming closer. Like, wait, what is, wow. And then next thing you know, it's, ha, ha, ha. There it is. And it's, it works that way for everything. That's how I got through prostate cancer.

[00:30:35] The grief I'm going through regarding my son's recent passing, like all of it. Yes. It's the exact same process, no matter what. Okay. So you got the silver surfer. Yep. What if you didn't get it? What, how has, has this still changed you in the process? What if it didn't come through? Or is that not even a question to ask? I don't know. Well, okay.

[00:31:02] So we can ask it in terms of if that particular, like suppose, you know, for whatever reason they sold out because they only make a certain number of them. Okay. Does that mean it's now impossible ever for me to get a silver surfer? No. Like it's still possible. It may not be that version. It may not be. Yeah.

[00:31:29] Granted, but because of what it represents, I can get that anywhere. Okay. Gotcha. So just because this place no longer sells the chocolate cake I like, it doesn't mean I can't still some way, shape or form get chocolate cake because it's not about the cake, right? Like it's about the feeling that comes from it. Right. It's the thing behind the thing. The exact, the, the, what you want behind the thing.

[00:31:58] Exactly. So let's dive into an important concept and that's the embodying knowingness of God. What does that mean exactly? Okay. So one, I'm going to use this as an example because we mentioned, uh, Jesus as the great, uh, example, not exception because even in new thought, we have also placed him on a pedestal and made him the great exception.

[00:32:28] And even in new thought, when we're saying he's not, wait, what did you just do? Right. Like we're doing both. Okay. So regarding prayer, spiritual mind treatment within new thought, I have noticed in my years of being in this movement. Many times we pray or ask for prayer when things are going wrong, things are bad and that's fine. Yes. Do that.

[00:32:57] But also why are we not praying when things are good? If prayer is our natural default setting, then pray all the time. So this idea of embodiment, when Dr. Holmes said, we know what it is, right? Do you know what signs of mind is? Yes. Well, what is it? And I explained you practice it. Well, how do you practice it? Well, based upon this.

[00:33:27] And for me, I do signs of mind and spirit 4.0. I ain't doing that stuff. I do 4.0. And for me, this is what it looks like and what it means for me to practice it. Okay. But there's a point where like Daniel-san and Mr. Miyagi, you start off with, I understand that I'm waxing on and waxing off. I understand that. Okay. Well, then the next thing is, but I thought I was going to learn karate.

[00:33:54] And then Mr. Miyagi is like, show me wax on, wax off. And then he punches and Daniel was like, blah, blah, blah. I know karate. But he still has to actively practice until eventually you hit a threshold where it is so much a part of you. You move before you even have time to think. Because it's an instinct.

[00:34:18] So how do you move from white belt metaphysics to black belt metaphysics where it is so much a part of who and what I am? I don't have to actively think of, oh, you know what? I should probably do a treatment for this or, you know, I should probably do an affirmation for it automatically happens simply because it's what I am. How do we embody it the same way we embody like anything else?

[00:34:48] Right? Like there is never a time where you wake up and you guarantee it when you say, huh? Huh? Am I a dad? I mean, I know Josh is, but am I a dad? Am I? I mean, huh? And you don't question it where it's like, well, maybe. Hey, it's part of who you are to the degree where when he calls or shows up or whatever,

[00:35:18] you don't have to think, oh, that's right. I'm his dad. Let me, you just act. How do we do the same thing with this idea of God is not out there? When Dr. Holmes said the only God and paraphrasing, the only God that any of us would know or understand is the one we embody.

[00:35:40] He's inviting us to stop looking for God out there and start saying everything that I am is a divine expression of it. Am I living from that awareness or am I still trying to find it somewhere? Embodiment is be it.

[00:36:01] But you say that your EKG reflects how well you not only know God, but also how well you know God as yourself. That's a big thing. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Very much so. And I've used being part of the LGBTQ community sort of as an example, right? Like in New Thought, many of us are closeted metaphysicians.

[00:36:28] We won't talk about it to other people because we don't want to look like Scientologists or, you know, we don't want people to think we're in a cult or whatever. So we keep it quiet. We keep it hush hush. And then eventually you get to a point where you're like, well, first of all, you question, am I? I mean, I don't. And then you wrestle with the well, but the Bible says or these people interpret that and you wrestle with all of that stuff. But then eventually you get to a place where you're like, you know what? But this is who I am.

[00:36:57] And then you come out. And in coming out, there's this whole new who I was before, who I am after. What does it mean to, especially if someone is transgender, I'm no longer that person. I have that person's memories. I have that person's experiences, but I don't have that person's name anymore.

[00:37:25] I don't have that person's body anymore. I'm new. This is the same thing. There is pre God is separate. God is anthropomorphic. God is in heaven with a great big book that says you better be good. You better act right. Right. Like, right. Okay. So then there's, but then you move through it and you realize, huh? What if that concept of God is wrong?

[00:37:51] Be in that space of, well, what if, what if, what if, what if? And keep, keep exploring. And then you get to the other side of what we actually teach is. Okay. So wait a minute. When Jesus said, I did these miracles and so can you and even greater. How do I do that then? I have to embody it. He didn't say do perfection just as he said, be therefore perfect. Just as your father in heaven is perfect. Be it.

[00:38:20] So how do I be? Well, I have to identify the qualities that I would say. These are the qualities of God. Justice, beauty, love, joy. How do I embody that? How do I embody these qualities that are God qualities? So that if someone said, you know, you're on the street in New York and someone has a microphone, they say, excuse me, Jim, we would like to know, you know, Reverend Dr.

[00:38:49] Raymond Anderson, give us three words that would, you would use to, I, you know, what he, and you say, one of the first words that come to my mind is hilarious. Like he should have done standup comedy or something like what, but it's because I've embodied that. That then means it's one of the first ideas that pops into somebody else's mind.

[00:39:12] So how do we embody the qualities, the attributes that we say, these are God qualities and attributes. And then once we've embodied that and we live from that, then we automatically become a 21st century new thought, good Samaritan. We automatically serve. We automatically become a demonstration of what the beloved community means because it's what we are. I'll be honest with you.

[00:39:41] Sometimes that really feels like hard work. Yeah. Does it matter? Why do we have to go through this whole thing in the first place? And I recognize it's sort of trying to explain why we exist. What, what clues can you point either way onto why this is important? So in the grand scheme of things, it's not like in the ultimate, cause many people are going to, yes. And many people are going to know.

[00:40:09] So in the grand scheme of things, life is going to keep being life, right? It doesn't matter who bungee jumps. It doesn't matter who skydives. It doesn't matter who skis. It doesn't matter who does the skateboard tricks. Gravity is still going to do gravity regardless. Yeah. So in the grand scope, it doesn't matter. But for those people who want to, like when Jesus said, I have come that you may have life and have it more abundantly.

[00:40:37] Those who want that more abundant, then we've got to reverse engineer and actually do the math that's going to manifest that. And if that's what we want, I want greater joy. I want, I want greater awe. Like just going outside and seeing a double rainbow. It's like, I feel like a little kid again. I feel like frosted lucky charms. I like, I feel like I, it's look, wow. We didn't grow up on sugar. Did we? No.

[00:41:07] Right. Right. Cause it's great. All right. Like there's, there's magic to be had. If you want more of that, then there is a path to it. So for that, the practice is important. But in the grand scheme of things, yeah, no, it's not because we're all going to continue to do art the way we do art. Some do acrylics. Some paint by numbers. Some knit. We're all doing it regardless.

[00:41:37] But if you get to a moment where, and I get to a moment where, and that person gets to a moment where they say, well, I'm curious. I'm, I don't want to keep making blankets with this yarn. I want to make a jacket, a sweater. How do I make a sweater using this? Then there's the path. There's the pattern. There's the blueprint. It's available for those who want that. Well, my art is river dancing.

[00:42:06] I don't know if you knew that. Um, unfortunately, unfortunately, Anne and Josh do not believe that's my art, but, but we're getting, we're getting. You'll convince them one day. I think one, I think one of the important things that, you know, you emphasize is that we're, we're doing this process with our lives. I mean, we can, we can choose to direct it, direct this energy, or we can just kind of let it happen. Yep.

[00:42:36] Because all four of these pillars are already happening. They're already happening. We're already thinking. We're already communicating. We're already emoting and feeling, and we're already behaviors and habits. We're already doing it. But are we doing it with focused intention? Some are, some aren't. And as I remind people, because, you know, oftentimes in New Thought, we talk about, you know, are you in alignment with the thing that you want.

[00:43:03] And I remind folks, technically, you cannot be out of alignment. We're always in alignment with something. Something. Yeah. So identify what am I in alignment with? And do I want to be in alignment with this or do I want to be in alignment with this? And how do I shift them? Because I can't be out of alignment. Technically. Yes, I'm in a different alignment, but I'm not out of alignment.

[00:43:34] So I want to expand a little bit on the greater picture here. And we have this perception. Some people in New Thought think, well, you know, everything. And the books talk about this a little bit. Everything comes out of our minds. Every experience that, you know, is created, you know, through us that we experience. Yeah, you kind of have a bone to pick with that idea.

[00:44:05] Yes, I do. Because we move into on this side, you know, metaphysical malpractice. But on this side, that's metaphysical malfeasance. We are literally causing harm because on this side, what we are then saying is all of the people who experienced the Holocaust at the hands of Hitler and the Nazis created that for themselves. Yeah.

[00:44:34] And like, let's have that conversation. Okay. Why do we only talk about them creating it? And we don't talk about what the Nazis created. We talk about their consciousness as having brought it about to themselves. But what about the consciousness of those who inflicted it? So my ancestors, you're saying that my ancestors,

[00:44:59] minding their business in Africa somewhere, had a consciousness of one of these days, I'm going to be kidnapped and trafficked and made into what they're going to call a slave. What? That's ludicrous. Yeah, it is. Yeah. And then it goes into the whole, because we could expand that and say, so then everything that's happening with ICE and deportations, they're bringing it upon themselves. No. No. No.

[00:45:28] Because then, well, someone's house burns down. They brought it upon themselves. Cancer. Someone brought it upon themselves. Everything then says, it's my fault or my responsibility. That's everything. That's, what's the word? That is morally corrupt, ethically bankrupt, and dangerous.

[00:45:57] Because it creates blame and guilt and shame in people and liberates no one. So there's a, what you talked about is that there's a collective consciousness too. Yes. And that's what you're, is that what you're getting to here? What, what is the collective consciousness then? And how does that factor in?

[00:46:24] So collective consciousness is you and I decide we're going to go to the community pool. We don't know who was in the community pool earlier in the day. We just know we're getting there at three. But if we could go back and look at the security cam, we find out that there were 15 people who peed in the pool earlier in the day. Oh no. Oh no. And so then we say, well, being in the collective pool, we're going to be impacted by the urine

[00:46:54] of people who were here before us. This is making me a little queasy, this example, but go ahead, go for it. I understand. Yeah. But it's the same thing. We live in a culture and society of people who lived long before we were ever an idea in our parents' minds, before our parents were an idea in their parents' minds. We talk about the second amendment.

[00:47:20] None of us were alive when those men sat down and crafted that. So the laws we have regarding guns and things today, trying to apply it using the consciousness of the people who it took five minutes to load a gun then. Wait, no, no, no. Wait, you can't. The math ain't mathing when we do that.

[00:47:43] So there is an overall consciousness of how things happen, how things are done, the overall consciousness of the human race. And we exist within all of that. To the degree if we go to Japan and we don't speak Japanese, so we have an interpreter and we say, hello, the interpreter says to the Japanese person, konnichiwa. Well, how is that possible?

[00:48:13] It's a different culture and a different language because there is a consciousness that still connects us all that makes it possible for a language to cross into another language via someone who understands both languages. If we were in separate consciousness, then we wouldn't be able to converse through an interpreter

[00:48:37] because their words would be whatever they, I don't know, I can't even say they speak in colors because we have colors too. It would have to be something completely different. So we understand that math, math is universal everywhere on the face of the planet. Everybody knows one plus one is two. Regardless of what language they use, they understand the principle.

[00:49:03] But there's a consciousness that we have all agreed, that we all understand, that we all abide by, that says H2O, water for you, agua for them, mizu for the Japanese, vaser for the Germans, but it's still H2O. So the collective consciousness is what we all exist within.

[00:49:27] And then within that, we have our individual consciousness, our thoughts and beliefs that impact the collective. When enough of us are of like mind and aligned in such a way like the suffragists, the abolitionists, civil rights, gay liberation, animal rights, and it moves the pendulum. That's how we impact it. But it's, it's a back and forth. We impact it. It impacts us. We impact it.

[00:49:56] It impacts us. So shouldn't spirituality stay out of politics, stay out of current events? Nope. Nope. You see. Why? Why shouldn't they? So oftentimes we talk about politics and the way we talk about it, we're talking about it as Republican Democrat. Like we're talking about that specifically. Politics is what, you know, you come out of your driveway and there's a pothole down the street.

[00:50:26] Politics is what infrastructure that you contact the city and the city comes out and sends somebody to fill the pothole. That's politics. Politics determines speed limits. Politics determines where you can smoke and where you can't smoke. Politics determines how much tax is going to be on that cigar versus there's no tax on. All of that is politics.

[00:50:51] Politics says, well, based upon the Food and Drug Administration, you know, we put food through a very stringent test to make sure you're not eating duck doo-doo, you know, with your ice cream. That's all politics. So, of course, we should be talking about that.

[00:51:10] And we should be talking about it in the container of, so in order to create a world that works for all, what does it mean to change the way we understand politics, the way we apply politics, so that it benefits more people rather than segmenting or segregating or ostracizing people? Because the way politics generally shows up, it's that.

[00:51:38] It's the good boys club for those who are wealthy and well-to-do and stuff. And then it's the haves and the have-nots and the billionaires, the ultra-wealthy and the ultra-poor. That's aspects of politics. But in order to create a world that works for all, we've got to create a whole new understanding of politics.

[00:52:00] And if I am correct, it was Gandhi who said those who say that religion and politics should be kept separate are people who don't understand what religion or politics actually are. Because they're intimately connected already.

[00:52:20] You mention in the book that when there was an incident of some sort, school shootings or, you know, some other horrific event, we tend to put out there our thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. Uh-huh. But that doesn't change anything. Nope. It's not changing policy.

[00:52:47] It's not changing the amount of gun safes that people have access to. Like, it's not changing any of that. As someone who's involved with Moms Demand Action and Everytown Survivor Fellowship and was involved with the survivors aspect of it as being someone who has experienced gun violence myself. And I don't know what the current stats are.

[00:53:13] But stats two years ago said that there are enough guns in the United States that if they were all divided equally amongst every single person, that's every child from newborn baby to great-great-grandma who's 900 years old. Every single human being would have approximately 175 guns.

[00:53:43] Wow. That's a lot. Oh, yeah. Right? Like, what? And thoughts and prayers isn't changing there. Mm-hmm. When do we have the conversation that says, well, time out, time out? Why do we have so many guns? Well, the Second Amendment says we have the right to bear arms. I got that. You have the right to. But that number is obscene. That's a not I have a right.

[00:54:12] That's a I need. What creates the energy of I need to have guns as a country? Because England, they don't. And Japan, they don't. So it's possible to not and still get by. So what is the consciousness? What is the mental equivalent that's driving our obsession with guns?

[00:54:40] Because if we really want to change the amount of children dying from gun violence, the number of gun-related shootings, whether it be domestic violence or other, the number of people who choose to take their own lives using guns, we want to change all of that. Then we've got to get to what is the mental equivalent that is causing the obsession. How do we address it? How do we heal it? How do we cure it?

[00:55:08] And then move into a space of we no longer need to offer thoughts and prayers because we've addressed the dis-ease that created that epidemic in the first place. And you dive into that in saying that we're often just treating the symptoms like with gun violence. Oh, other people should have guns. Oh, bulletproof, you know, backpacks and all that stuff.

[00:55:36] But we need to get to what's causing this. I mean, homelessness is an issue. Yes. But we have to have solutions to what caused that in the first place, don't we? Yes. Yes. And, well, we don't have to necessarily, like, know or be able to pinpoint an exact what caused it. Like, what was the initiating factor? We can look at it today and say, well, what's causing it today? Right?

[00:56:05] Like, what is, like, I don't know if my roof is leaking. I don't have to go back and say, well, Jim, let's go explore and find out, well, the roof actually started leaking in 1908. You're just now seeing the symptoms of it now because blah, blah, blah. Well, me finding out that it was 1908 versus 2008, that's not going to make any difference. The roof is leaking, period. So, you can't identify what's causing the leak. Is it actually a hole in the roof?

[00:56:35] Is it a pipe somewhere? Like, what's actually causing it? Where's the water coming from? And now let me address it. So, if we looked at the unhoused situation experience, what makes that? What makes that? Because there's several different factors and things. Okay. So, looking at that, how do we restore? How do we solve? How do we resolve? How do we actually address it?

[00:57:04] Well, that means we have to have conversations about it. And most conversations about any of these issues, we are so focused on, there's an equal sign, right? Like you're doing a math equation and there's equal sign. And there's the thing that's on the left-hand side of the equal sign called the problem. We are so focused on the problem. That we only think there's one answer to the solution. Seven plus three.

[00:57:33] It's always going to come up with ten. Always. But if we stop focusing on the problem so much and starts focusing on what's on the right side of the equal sign, well, it's a ten. And then we say, now, how many different ways can you get to a ten? It's infinite. It's infinite. Like, literally infinite.

[00:57:56] So let's start having conversations about solutions, about healing countries, healing people and families. And then we'll find there's a whole slew of possible ways to get there. But we don't even engage, especially in new thought. Because in new thought, we, well, what you think about, what you talk about, you bring about. Don't resist anything. Because what you resist persists.

[00:58:24] And, you know, we want to quote Mother Teresa, you know, the protest against war, I will never show up. But if there's a march for peace, I'll be there. And, like, we misconstrue what all this means. Versus saying, no, you can be against something. And it doesn't mean you're attracting it to yourself. Right? Like, so we don't want firefighters to have flame-resistant clothing?

[00:58:55] Like, that's common sense. We anti-perspirant. Well, it's anti. That means it's the opposite. Well, we shouldn't be anti-anything. But are we perpetuating the negative if we're focusing on the negative like that? Why or why not? So, no, if we're doing it the way a surgeon focuses on whatever the surgery is. Right?

[00:59:25] I had prostate cancer, had surgery. The doctor is focusing on the problem with the idea of what's on the other side of this. So, the emphasis is on what's the other side of it. It doesn't mean the problem isn't there. It's the emphasis on what we're moving to. Correct. Right? Isn't that? That's what firefighters do. They don't run up to a fire and they're like, oh, wow.

[00:59:55] It's on fire. That's a big wow. Man. I'm going to call somebody. There's a fire. That's not what they do. They recognize it and they immediately jump into, well, because they've embodied the techniques. How do we extinguish this? They're already solution oriented in terms of this is the problem. Fire.

[01:00:21] Hurt and harm to animals and lives that are in the building. How do we extricate them safely and extinguish this? They're already thinking 10 steps ahead to the solution, not the problem, even though they acknowledge the problem.

[01:00:41] So I want to shift a little bit and ask you something that comes to mind for me in terms of embodying the divine. And that is, Ken, what's your impression of God, the universe? Is it something that's personal to you?

[01:01:04] You know, sometimes I understand it as sort of this great energy that we're a part of, this great experience. But maybe it's the anthropomorphic side of me that wants to feel a more personal connection to that anthropomorphized, I can't pronounce that word, idea of God. But can you have a personal relationship with this?

[01:01:31] So I'm going to speak the language of your T-shirt right now. Which is Star Wars. Right, right. Because you'll get there. Do you have a personal relationship with the Star Wars canon of existence? Sure, yeah. And that personal connection is something that you feel good about. Otherwise, you wouldn't wear a Star Wars T-shirt, right? Like if you're like, hey, Jim, what do you think about Star Wars? Oh, I hate it.

[01:02:00] Why you got a Star Wars T-shirt on, right? Like it wouldn't make sense. Yeah. It's personal because you chose, one, it's either a gift or you purchased the shirt for the same reason, Silver Surfer. This shirt reminds me of how much I love this canon in this galaxy a long time ago, far, far away.

[01:02:23] And all of the characters and all of the force and all of, and this shirt is an embodied reminder to me that I'm connected to that. And it feels good. It's no different with the divine. So, yes.

[01:02:42] So, yes.

[01:03:08] Is it your love that he feels the exact same thing or is it your feeling of it and your experience of it and his feeling and his experience of it that is personal to each of you, even though it's a shared emotion? Interesting. Hmm.

[01:03:42] Interesting. Right? Because my taste buds and my experience, her taste buds and her experience, your taste buds and your experience, it's going to be personal to us, even though the plate and the meal itself is neutral.

[01:04:11] It simply is. Hmm. But how we interact with it is personal. I'm kind of, um, I'm sure I'm misquoting and happily misconstruing what, what something that Ann told me when I was, when I was sort of contemplating this at one point a while ago.

[01:04:32] Um, and she said, God, the universe, this, this energy is big enough to empower that feeling of personality through us, even though it's not a separate like being, it's not something out in the sky. Hmm.

[01:04:50] And, you know, when people talk about receiving guidance and channeling and all that stuff, I, um, I'm sometimes very, you know, I think there's wisdom in what comes through, but I, I can accept that. Divinity can embody a, a, I don't know how to describe it, not a personality, but, but an experience that is connected to that. What do you think about that? That's a good question.

[01:05:20] Cause there's so many thoughts in my head right now. Like, of course there always are. Yeah. Yeah. The truth be told. So exactly. Exactly. So yes. And in terms of where you started the universe being God, being, you know, divine being big enough and expansive enough to. Yes. So let's swap out the word God or divine or universe and put in the word inspiration. Okay. Right.

[01:05:46] Inspiration is big enough that it's, it can inspire and technically does every single person who ever was is and will ever be. And inspiration itself is not diminished by it. Hmm. It's, it's, it's more than big enough. Love is more than big enough. Love has inspired poems and George Lucas's love of this idea about, you know, a space cowboy.

[01:06:16] Hmm. And his love create love is big enough to move and inspire and motivate all of this stuff. Well, that's God. That's the divine. We're just using different words for it. So yes, it's more than big enough to be personal and personalized through us. And as us and with us and all of that.

[01:06:40] And I'm fine with the linguistic convenience of every now and then, you know, referencing, uh, you know, looking for inspiration or, you know, waiting for inspiration to strike or, you know, talking about a muse, whatever. It's linguistic convenience. It's the poetry of language. But I also understand, well, it's, it's not out there. It's not over there. It's right where I am.

[01:07:07] So when I say this, am I saying it just for linguistic convenience or am I saying it because there's a space where I actually believe that I'm separate from it? Interesting. If that's what it is, then I have to work through it. But yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm fine with all of that. And in terms of, you know, messages, whether it's, you know, channeling or whatever, whatever.

[01:07:30] And in fact, I remember years ago when you and Sherry first interviewed me and I talked about tarot cards and Oracle cards and you were like, well, say more. How does that match with new thought or whatever? And it's the same idea of whatever moves you, whatever motivates you, whatever inspires you, you know, wherever you get imagery. Be there, but recognize it's not really this thing, right?

[01:07:59] Like it's not this. Right. It's just that it's pointing. Right. It's pointing to the bigger thing. Right. Like even going back to Star Wars, we understand that Sir Alec Guinness is not Obi-Wan Kenobi. What? Right. That's crazy. However, our relationship with the movie, it's not with Sir Alec Guinness. Our relationship is with Obi-Wan Kenobi. Right.

[01:08:27] And in that, we understand this connection. But even that, it's Obi-Wan as a concept, as an idea that points the way. Because then when we get, you know, McGregor playing Obi-Wan, we're not like, well, wait a minute. How does that? We understand because it's the energy that he represents as the character.

[01:08:53] And we're able to say, oh, I'm following the energy that is Obi-Wan. I'm following the energy that is Yoda. So I can go from him being a puppet with Frank Oz to him then being CGI. Because it's the concept and the energy. So if someone says Course in Miracles is a channel text, I'm like, cool. It doesn't work for me. But I understand what you're talking about. And I am still open to, so what are you?

[01:09:23] Oh, I like that. Or, hmm, I got questions. I'm still open to it. Because if it works for you, it works for you. It's not my place to say that that doesn't work. Right. You have your own path. That's fine. Exactly. Which takes us back to the idea of you were like, it's hard. Like, is this necessary? No, it's not necessary. Interesting. Many, many paths, many roads still lead to Rome. Take whatever path you want to take.

[01:09:54] As long as you're not hurting anyone. You know, it's like the Wiccan Creed. Do whatever you will, but harm none. Yeah. Channel. Are you hurting people? Tarot cards. Are you hurting crystals? Are you hurting? If you're not hurting people, including the environment, are you causing harm to the environment? If you're not causing harm and this is helping you navigate, then be with it.

[01:10:21] We need to close things up because I could talk to you like for hours about this stuff. But I want to hit on that. Okay. We're both sci-fi and superhero nerds. And I'm proud of that. I think you are a friend of that, too. Oh, of course. What does Star Wars, what does Star Trek, what do superheroes evoke in you that make it kind of a spiritual thing for you? Great question. Especially a great question to close on.

[01:10:48] So, someone that you know quite well, and I'm not going to say his name. I'm going to see if you know who I'm talking about. A gentleman who is very controversial in many ways, has a lot of tattoos, does a lot of writing. First name starts with an image. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right?

[01:11:13] Something he said, and I don't even remember when, but way back when he made a comment and he said something to the effect of comic books. It's a spiritual text to those who derive. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, what?

[01:11:29] But, and this, I heard him say it or read him, whatever, having written it or whatever, not long after Alan Watts had told a story about someone going to Japan to speak with a great Zen master. And, you know, they're having the conversation and they're like, yeah, I'm here to learn the Zen teachings and whatever.

[01:11:50] And the Zen master was like, to the person who truly understands Zen, you will find truth in a newspaper, in Alice in Wonderland, in the dictionary. Because truth is everywhere. It's how are we approaching it? It's from us. So, all of these characters, it's modern day mythology, right?

[01:12:16] It's the modern day Hercules and the modern day Athena. Like, it's all of these. So, what is the energy of it? And what does that energy give me the ability to do? Right? Like Star Trek. Something that has deeply and profoundly been part of my consciousness is the Vulcan concept of Kol Utshan. Infinite diversity in infinite creations.

[01:12:47] Like the idea of Vulcan saying, no, no, no, no, no. Infinite diversity. And infinite creations. And this is one of their, like, deeply held values. How do I embody that? Especially when we are now in a place where people don't like diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's like, no, no, no, no. Infinite diversity.

[01:13:14] How many kinds of apples are there? Because there isn't just one kind of apple. There's a vast array of kinds of apples. There's a vast array of kinds of cockroaches. There isn't just one standard cockroach. There's like 27 species of roaches. There's thousands spiders. Wait a minute. A rainbow doesn't red.

[01:13:45] Well, that's not a rainbow. That's an arc of red. So a rainbow has a spectrum. Infinite diversity. Infinite creation. Creativity. How do I embody that? So all of these stories, these characters, they give me a space. How can I strive?

[01:14:06] How can I live and embody these ideals in a way where Wakanda forever teaches me we are one global family. We are in this together. Well, what's another way of saying that? Well, as Emma Lazarus said, the woman who wrote the poem, As Suffer the Statue of Liberty, as she said, none of us are free until all of us are free. Wakanda forever reminds me of that. It's about unity. It's about togetherness.

[01:14:35] In Doctor Strange, when the ancient one, in the movie, when the ancient one says, mind moves matter. In The Matrix, the oracle says, temet noske, know thyself. Like all of these things are ways of, did you see that? Go over there. Because the moment you go there, you will be changed. You will no longer be the same person. Go there.

[01:15:04] It's going to change you. So yeah, all of our geeky nerdiness and stuff, it's literally scripture via a movie, via a television show. It is our way of communing with the divine through the great art of storytelling. It is wonderful to talk with you. We can edit this out if you want, but I just want to express, you know, I know you suffered a tragic loss in your life.

[01:15:33] Yes, yes, yes. With your son. And I just want to know that, I want you to know that we love you, we support you, and hold you in our hearts as you navigate through this. Greatly appreciated. And like I said, you know, because my therapist asked, you know, how are you, how are you, you know, with the grief and stuff? And ultimately it's, it's the same practice, right? I feel the sadness. I feel the, I feel all of that.

[01:16:02] And there's still gratitude. There's still joy. There's still love. Like it's, it's still there. It doesn't end. Yeah. Yeah. And where I am in my life now, I can recognize that several years ago, this wouldn't even been in the picture. It would have only been sadness and shutdown. And what now I understand the both and, and I can be in the space of the both and. So greatly appreciate it. Thank you. Absolutely.

[01:16:30] Thank you so much for coming on big universe. I love you. I said, yeah, good, good vibes. And thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you. Reverend Dr. Raymont Anderson is a spiritual teacher, author, and cultural thinker. He serves as the spiritual director of the center for spiritually integrated arts. He's the architect of the EKG framework. And his latest book is EKG embodied knowingness of God, a new approach to

[01:17:00] understanding and applying the mental equivalents. Check out spiritually integrated arts. And if you're a spiritual teacher, you can see him on the right side of the day. For more information about him. Hey folks, let people know about this podcast, please. Would you? That would be really cool. Really awesome. I would appreciate it. Thanks everybody. I'm Jim Lefter. We'll talk next time on big universe. Thanks for joining us on our big universe podcast.

[01:17:25] For more info, check us out at mindbodyspirit.fm and search all of the episodes at biguniversepodcast.com. Keep exploring the truth. It's a big universe. Hello, my beloveds. I am Reverend Sue Frederick, and I would love it if you would join me for my mystical conversation podcast.

[01:17:48] I'm a unity minister, a numerologist, a soul regression therapist, and I have the best guest on my show. We explore everything mystical, including angels, numerology, and more. Come have a mystical conversation with me. Part of the mindbodyspirit.fm podcast network. Good work.